During a recent convention, Chandler was able to take some time and sit down with the Associate Producer of World Building for Morrowind, Royal Connell. Here is the transcript from the interview, lightly edited for clarity.
Chandler - I'm talking with Royal Connell.
Royal - Connell.
Chandler - I'm gonna mangle that again and I've been friends with you for years. What the hell?
Royal - Everybody mangles my name. In a lot of cases I don't even correct it, but it's okay.
Chandler - So you said you were a[n] associate producer on world building for Morrowind.
Royal - Correct.
Chandler - Okay. Before I dive into it, let's ask the questions that Devon posted because they had some good ones. First one. What was the weirdest thing to happen in your time working with Morrowind.
Royal - The weirdest thing that happened. Well, as far as Morrowind goes, or as far as things that affected all of us because 9/11 happened right through the middle of me working there.
Chandler - Oh, is that the one that's stuck out the most for you?
Royal - Uh, weird, it is a strange question, right? Because we were all weird, right? Like the weirdest things that happened like, weird happened, kind of every day. Individually because we kind of worked at a basement and they were renovating the space. So we were kind of moved around until like or in this one little like back room, for a while and then they renovated the main space and we moved out of there into this space. But we were in a basement, we had no natural sunlight or, you know, all in this cave, effectively, working on the project, on Morrowind. And the world outside just didn't exist when we were working until suddenly it did that one day. We had a little cafeteria space, like the wide screen TVs. I used to get there super early in the morning, because I lived quite a ways away and DC traffic, since Bethesda is near DC because this is located, DC traffic is not something you want to do during rush hour.
Chandler - Yeah, I can imagine that's painful.
Royal - And Bethesda required us to be there. I want to say 10 o'clock to 1 o'clock, 10 o'clock, to 2 o'clock. Anyway, a period of time in the middle of a day because that's what all of our meetings were. You're probably there for meeting times, but when you came in and when you left was kind of up in the air as long as you've got your work done, put in your time or whatever. So a couple of us would get those super early in the morning. And then, you know, we weren't having to be there longer to get something out, get something done, We would leave earlier than the rest of them, And I was one of those people. Those of us that got there early wouldn't even bother turning the lights [on], we'd just be in our little area with the only lights being our monitors.
Chandler - You got like the glows from [from the monitors].
Royal - Oh, yeah. You know, we were total cave trolls. We'd be sitting there doing our thing and, most of us that got there that early didn't sit near each other, either. So it was really kind of isolating for the first several hours, which is when we got all of our work done because nobody's there to bother us, right? You know, because there's a lot of distractions. I think more distractions working in video gaming than there ever was any other industry I've worked in. Because we were all nerdy to it extent and had somewhat similar interests, you know, and video game systems sitting around and just just things to do in the space that aren't just working. And so, we do market research quote unquote. Play other games, you know. I remember for a while that people would play Conquer's Bad Furday or whatever, which was If you're not familiar with is a relatively rauncy game, especially for the time.
Chandler - I forgot that came out before Morrowind.
Royal - Yeah, somebody brought that in and that was, that was a thing for a minute.
Chandler - Did that color any of the world building?
Royal - I don't know. I don't think so because it's very different. It's style.
Chandler - Fair enough.
Royal - But yeah, so back to the 9/11 thing, right? So I've been there like super early and somebody came in after, I guess after the first plane hit and came out all of our desks [saying] oh my god! This thing happened. A plane hit the tower. What? You're kidding, right? So the rest of the day was wasted. We all went into the cafeteria where the big TV was because they're watching the things [happening]. And because of where we were located and plane that had hit the Pentagon flew right over our building, right past our building.
Chandler - Oh, wow.
Royal - Not that we would have known, we couldn't see out the windows anyway. But that plane effectively flew right over. We were right there in DC, you know? And it wasn't quite as crazy as New York was, but suddenly we were, you know, our phones were blowing up from everybody. Yes. You okay? Like I know I'm not near the Pentagon. I'm like it flew over us but we're not there, right? But we knew everybody that worked there. New people that worked, you know, in the pending over near the paradigm Sunday, it was like holy shit. Is dad okay? Is this person okay? and it's weird. From talking to people, after the fact, you know, that lived other places like I think it impacted those that lived in New York and in DC way differently than impacted. I mean, not that didn't impact those on the other side of the country, or whatever, but it was very different for those that lived in those areas.
Chandler - Yeah, especially with the proximity thing.
Royal - Yeah, but that was the weirdest thing quote unquote that happened, that was external that happened to us. Internal, like I said, it was, it was kind of weird every day and we did weird things every day. At least in the world building side, we would throw in Easter eggs and jokes and, like, a lot of the inside jokes of the studio, manifested in the game in one way, or another. Some of which then got taken by the players way further than we ever expected.
Chandler - What was one that kind of comes to mind?
Royal - So the so the biggest shining example of that, is we had, not long after you first start the game, not very far away. You're going down a path. In this guy just was falling out of the sky and just dies in the path right in front of you, right? And we thought that was hilarious, you know, it's like, oh, he's, you know, you're reading journal or whatever and you're reading stuff, you know, flying potion or jumping potion. But basically, when he had a couple of potion on him and this journal and if you drank the journal [potion], it would just jack your athletics through the roof, such that if you were to drink it and jump, it would transport you like ridiculously out of the world and then it would wear off. And then you would land right over. I don't remember, you weren't intend to survive, right? The intention was the drink this thing and die, just like he did, right? Well, the speedrun community got a hold of this and used it to jump to the top of the volcano and basically end the game early.
Chandler - Yeah.
Royal - But so, they completely used it in a way that we hadn't intended. Which was crazy.
Chandler - And did you, like you knew that was an inside joke, and when you found out that happened to...
Royal - It was cool. You know, it was super cool. We'd pack jokes, the fact that you open up barrels and just get a random, "This barrel had a pillow in it." What the [blank] is that all about? What, why does someone have a pillow in a barrel? So, we made this lady that collects pillows, right? And if you go to her house, she kind of complains about that she's missing a shipment of pillows. Well, there's a shipwreck off the shore that is, like, full of this lady's shipment of pillows, right? That's she's waiting for. It was stuff like that. A lot of us at the time were playing other games. Like, you know, EverQuest was big at the time, and stuff like that. But my entire EverQuest guild is in the game somewhere, every single one of them. Every single one of those characters is in one way or another, in the game, in one place or another. Because we have the name on all these characters something, like, so your name sounds very Nordic. Here. You're a Nord now. Random Nord Number 53 now is named after this EverQuest guy.
Chandler - Aw, that's amazing!
Royal - I think my character is like a guard somewhere. I don't really remember where we put them all, we just we were randomly naming characters, they all had to have a name, so we're like, oh yeah, that guy from EverQuest, put him in there. You know, that guy stick him in there.
Chandler - That's funny.
Royal - So, yes, this is a lot of that kind of Easter Egg stuff that is only recognizable by us. And there are some, that the player base has figured it out, and may not have known the background to it, but it makes me chuckle thinking about it.
Chandler - Fair enough. Yeah. What was the most interesting and maybe most fun part of working on Morrowind to you?
Royal - To me. So I did a lot of research. I think the coolest thing that I got to contribute tomorrow in which then kind of got retconned a little bit after I left. But, so, tomorrow was the first time that you could be an orc as a playable race. Before that orcs were not playable. They were, there were an NPC class only or NPC race only. And so I was tasked with developing what the orcs were like, such that more could be made from them, or whatever. And so I envisioned the orcs as kind of a mix between Mongol society and like a matriarchal society where the men were always off fighting or whatever and the women were back running the show, running the villages, or whatever. I had pages up on pages up on pages of more that I had done and researching mongols and researching matriarchal societies and kind of blending those together with some, you know, Elder Scrolls flair to it. And the interesting thing about the Elder Scrolls lore is that all lore in the Elder Scrolls is written from the viewpoint of whoever's writing in, right? So there's lots of lore in the Elder Scrolls that can contradict each other because this group might tell the same story very differently than this group over here does. Which, is one of those things that I always loved that the Elder Scrolls did that a lot of other roleplaying systems don't. Like, they'll come up with this lore but it's very uniform and every group, every book you find on it seems to tell the same story and there's tons of more in the game of the Elder Scrolls games that has nothing at all to do with the overall lore of the world, right? It's just it's random stuff, random book, random, this random that. And if you actually sit down and read it some of it's very funny or interesting or cool, right. lore,
Chandler - Like the 12 things about Alemalexia.
Royal - Yeah. I am a lore person, right? So, we had working with us Ken Ralston, who was amazing. One of the most genius guys I have ever worked with, and he would just come up with these ideas, they're like, that is cool, you know, whatever. And so I took a lot of inspiration from kind of how he was and what he did. And if you're familiar with all the Paranoia role-playing game, he's the guy who kind of gave the computer his voice in that role playing game. So so we did a lot of that, I kind of made all kinds of lore stuff. Like, that's something I found really interesting. And as part of that, one of the other things I did while I was there is help kind of create an Elvish dictionary. So a lot of the Elvish in the game, means something, like an Elvish word you see the game means something. And it's not like, it's not Tolkein level mean something, right? That's a whole other level, we weren't trying to create a language with grammar and everything, it was was very much kind of a one for one, you know? Mer, you know, Altmer - high elf, right? It's like, literally Bosmer - wood elf, right? Orsimer. it's Orsimer, it's an elf. Orcs are an elf race. Since it's got mer on them. Which isn't caught by a lot of people. I can tell you really start to think about the fact that this is their language. It's translated. So I did a lot of that. Oh, we always had it, but it wasn't documented, right? So, I went through it. I tried to take all these bits that were out there that nobody had written down and tried to document it into a document, which I'm sure has been expanded upon since I left there.
Chandler - Kind of building off of that, did you spend much time doing anything with the Dunmer, The dark elves or was that someone else?
Royal - So a lot of the main story live stuff, the Dunmer were so huge in the main storyline were done by Ken. There were very focused people that were doing the main storyline and the main story and like I said, those people worked most of the main story stuff. A lot of my job was everything else. Well, not everything else, but my job was less focused on the main storyline and more focused on the filling out the world and the team that I worked with just filling out the world while those people that were dedicated to the main storyline did the main storyline that the Dunmer were a huge part of. So I didn't touch the Dunmer as much because they were too wrapped up in the main story.
Chandler - Fair enough. What was one thing that you worked on that kind of got left on the cutting room floor that you wished ended up in the story?
Royal - Nothing. everything I did ended up in the game somehow. It may have been tweaked, but nothing that I did didn't make it into the game.
Chandler - That's kind of impressive, Honestly.
Royal - You don't have time to do stuff that doesn't get into the game. So part of Todd's job, Todd Howard, was to say, this is what we're doing, this is what we're not doing. So things that go to the cutting room for go to the cutting room floor before they get to me.
Chandler - Okay.
Royal - So by the time that I was working on it, it was going to go in the game. I mean, we were "this needs to be done. This is going. We have, you know, these hundreds of dungeons that need to be built all over the world. We have, you know, this needs to be done. It's going in the game," right? By the time that my team was getting it. It was already going in the game. So, we weren't at the level where we were, like, "here's a bunch of ideas, some of them will make it in, some of them won't." Well, that was done. It just wasn't done by us.
Chandler - Fair enough. How big was your team, out of curiosity?
Royal - I don't know. That's really weird to say. Do you mean my team, The world building team?
Chandler - Yeah, like, the world building team.
Royal - I think that we had like seven, eight people at our peak. We grew and grew. When I started there, there was just a couple of us. We grew as we went on and 9/11 happened and then like half of us got let go, myself included, which really kind of sucked. So I left actually before Morrowind was released. Which is why, in the credits, I'm not credited properly.
Chandler - That's unfortunate.
Royal - I was bitter about it for a long time.
Chandler - I can imagine.
Royal - I'm not so much now. But it would have been nice to be credited with what I actually did.
Chandler - So games are collaborative collaborative effort, obviously with a lot of people touching it and a lot of talent, but often games are attributed to a small handful of people. Is there a particular way You've felt like you left your mark?
Royal - My mark?
Chandler - Yeah.
Royal - Okay, my biggest mark is so big, it could be seen from the overhead map. Because I'm the guy who put the shrine of Azura on the southeast coast. And I totally took inspiration of that from the giant Jesus in Rio de Janeiro and I'm like, that is cool, and I want something like that. So, there is a shrine to Azura on the southeast coast that I literally just took the shrine that the artists have made for everywhere in the world and I blew it up to astronomical proportions and slapped it on the coast. Because that's what you do. And because the way they took the picture for the map was The camera way the f up here and just shoot down, that thing is big enough to be seen from space.
Chandler - That's amazing.
Royal - And when they put Morrowind into Elder Scrolls online, that statue, or their version of it, is still there.
Chandler - That's amazing.
Royal - So I didn't even work on Elder Scrolls Online, but my influence is still in the Elder Scrolls Online, because of the work I did in Morrowind.
Chandler - Oh, that's amazing.
Royal - So, there you go. A lot of my orc stuff got messed around with and changed. I still think would have been better if they left it alone. But that, that is still there. To this day in current iterations of the Elder Scrolls.
Chandler - That is awesome. As one of the many people who worked on the game, what are your thoughts of Morrowind's legacy? Like the almost fever dream that kinda came out of that moment?
Royal - It's wild, right? So a couple things happened. Bethesda at that time was not at all known for putting out bug-free games. I had come from a QA company before I came into them and I convinced them really early on to do QA early, way earlier than they otherwise would have. And we actually brought in the company that I previously worked for to do a lot of that work. And I brought over some of the guys that I had worked for there to Bethesda. In fact, the guy that ended up being the head of QA at Bethesda [Michael Fridley], used to work directly with me at this other QA company. He has since gone on to do really well. And is still is in the industry. I'm not, but he is. Good guy. So anyway, so we A) we QAed Morrowind way earlier than the Daggerfall or Arena had been QAed and I think that made it much more stable. Well, not perfectly stable. It's really hard to make a huge open world game like that where almost anything is possible be completely stable. People don't understand the amount of effort that goes into QAing something like that. And everything that a QA person can think of doing is not going to be what the general public is going to think of doing. See exhibit A of the guy jumping to the top of the volcano. So there was that, but we also decided to put in to release to the world, the world editor that we Literally used to build the entire game, right? So the world editor, the public got was the exact same world editor that we use to build the world. And so, what I would do is every time we hire on a new world builder, I would hand them the editor and say, "This is the editor for the game and I'm not going to tell you how to use it. I want you to read the help files because I'm going to treat you like a player, like a person was sending this to. I'm gonna let you read the help files. I'm gonna let you figure it out and I want you to build me a dungeon. We have eight million dungeons that need to go in the game, I want you to build me one. And I want you to use that editor. And at the end of the day, I want you to show me the guns that you built. And I want you to tell me what it is about the editor that was clear. What wasn't. What help files need to be expanded. What would have been more helpful." And I would then take all that stuff and I compile it out and I'd hand it to the guy who is in charge of programming the editor and I'd say, "I need these changes made."
Chandler - Cool, that's actually really cool.
Royal - And because of that, the editor got better, the editor got better, and the editor got better and the help files got better. And when we released the game, the editor got tons of praise, because we have effectively QAed it in-house to make it better and better and better. And like, it was the editor that we used, but I wanted to make it friendly to the players. So this is the other maybe legacy that I put onto the game, is this effort of making the editor that we released the players better then it was at the start. And the editor we used, it wasn't that was user unfriendly when I started, but it could have been better and it did get better. So the editor that we've released the players, we exactly matter that we used to make the game. So if we could do it, they could do it.
Chandler - Yeah. And they've been doing it for 25 years now.
Royal - And people are still doing it, it blows my mind, right? I don't know that we could have expected Morrowind to have to staying power that it has had. You don't work in that industry without having at least a little bit of an ego of going. Not necessarily that you're awesome but when somebody says, "Holy crap, you worked on that. That's so awesome." You get like that little swelling of pride. I had a part of that, you know, so it's really cool. The fact that I'm doing this interview right now at all. The fact that anybody cares, like this is the only game I've worked on. But it's not the only game. Not that anybody seems to care about that I've worked on, right? None of the other stuff that I ever worked on does anybody put any any thought into.
Chandler - Okay, I'll bite. What other games did you work on?
Royal - So it's the only game I work for at Bethesda. And after 9/11 it took a long time before I got back into the industry because nobody was hiring. But I ended up getting picked up. I left the industry for a while. And I came back into the industry for one title and then after that left the industry again because that was night and day experience. So I worked on Damnation which you may or may not have heard of and I'd probably better off if you haven't. That company, I don't want to massively bad mouth a lot of it, but that company was not run as well as Bethesda was. It was some of those talented people I've ever worked for. And the people that I worked for there at Blue Omega went on to do amazing things. The guy who runs Wonderstorm was our art director [Justin Richmond]. They were the ones who did the Dragon Prince. We had people leave that went and did work for Naughty Dog. And they made amazing games. We got people that that left and went to other game companies and did big, well-known games. The people that I worked with there were massively talented people that were squandered by management. Let's just put it that way. Not so much managers, the owners, the owner. I can't say anything nice about them because I that's not the way I am. So, back to Morrowind.
Chandler - Oh, actually. I have one more question on that one. What did you do on Damnation? Was it the same role?
Royal - On Damnation? I was the associate producer on Damnation. On Morrowind, I was the associate producer, but really what I was in charge of was world building aspect. On Damnation, I was the associate producer and the way I like to describe my job on Damnation was think of everything that goes into making a video game. I did everything else. Right, because I didn't do the art, I didn't do the world building or the putting the world together. That wasn't really on me, but I did a lot of the other things, right? I helped with getting the audio linked to the sounds, you know, the visuals, right? This audio need to be linked to that video and I did all that back end stuff that nobody cares about. You know, and I worked, I oversaw the QA guys and I oversaw this. I made sure that the artists were talking to the programmers and the programmers were talking to the artists and we were all kind of on the same page.
Chandler - So you were doing the logistics on it.
Royal - Yeah. Production is this kind of weird part of game making, even when I was at Morrowind, at Bethesda. It's kind of weird part of game making because the part nobody really thinks about, like, the artists are, you know, flashy and all this art is amazing. The programmers are oh, games need to be programmed, right? The AI does this and this does that, whatever. People understand when you say I did programming on this or I did art on this. When you say I did I was a producer on this and like, what does that even mean, right? We're the people that the general public doesn't notice, right? I don't want to say we're management, but we're the kind of management. We're the people, like I said, like Todd Howard do the actual high level producer is the one who says this goes into this dozens, maybe these are our timelines, right? In the real world. It's kind of like a project manager mixed with a product manager or mixed with, you know. They're the guys who make sure everything runs smoothly. That's what we, the producers do. I was an associate producer. That means I worked directly for the main producer on the games. That's what I did. So I did everything the producer didn't want to do. That's that's what I did.
Chandler - Fair enough. Yeah, I was just curious because I'm not personally familiar with Damnation. So, I wanted to at least ask a couple questions.
Royal - Damnation should have been way better than it ended up being. There was a lot in my mind of focusing on the wrong parts of the game. Too much focus was put on certain aspects of game and not enough focus was put on the parts of the game that made it playable, right? The AI was broken because too much focus was put on the "kachunk" sound of a gun over getting the AI right. And I can't say too much more about it without just completely tearing apart certain individuals. But, let's just say the certain individuals ruined that game. The design specs when I came on, I read and looking at the design specs, this is something I want to work on. This is amazing, This is going to be cool. It should have been, and it wanted to be, this kind of mix of vertical tomb raider style gameplay with like a gears of war style cover system. It wanted to be more than it could be. More than it ended up being. We wanted to be more than it was. And I think if you go through and play the game, you can see aspects of that, where it could have been had we been given the time and the focus to focus on the things that should have been done, instead of the things that were superficial.
Chandler - So I'm gonna try and tie this back to Morrowind somehow.
Royal - Night and day. Companies.
Chandler - Yeah, I guess was there anything else that really stood out when you were doing Morrowind? That you kind of wanted to like highlight or anything like that.
Royal - I really think we hit the highlights. It was a cool time, right? It was a cool time in my life. It was a chance to be part of something way bigger than me. That has continued to be way bigger than me. And you know, probably one of the highlights of my career even though I don't work in that industry anymore. Nothing I've ever done in any industry, before or since, has had the staying power that that has. And I've done some things. In the industries I've been in that have been neat, for that industry. That are cool, if you're in that industry and that kind of thing is cool to you. But being able to be part of Morrowind, which became bigger than ourselves. The players took at a created and took it way further than it ever was. It's huge to begin with.
Chandler - That it was.
Royal - And listening to people, just telling me the stories of the things they've done in the game, you know? Oh, I found this thing and it was really cool and, you know, it's like the fact that people are even still talking about it to this day blows my mind. Because at the time, like when I, you know, you don't think about it that way, when you're when you're working on it, right?
Chandler - It's just get this done?
Royal - You want to make something cool, but you're so focused. You're so in the weeds on it, that you're not really thinking about how is this going to have staying power, you know, 20 years from now? It's are people gonna like it. Are people gonna like it when I release it, much less are they gonna like it 20 years from now, right?
Chandler - And a lot of games don't have that.
Royal - No. You know, it's so the fact that that game gets mentioned in the same breath as, you know, other games that have had that kind of staying power and I had a small part of that. It is freaking cool. It really just is. The fact that anybody to this day would care about these stories. You know, some of the people reading through this, or listening to this, are going to be like, I wasn't even born yet. Holy crap.
Chandler - In full disclosure, Morrowind was one of the first first person RPGs that I ever played. I was playing Unreal Tournament around that time. And that was what I was obsessed with but then Morrowind came along and yeah, never actually played the story. I was it was too busy playing around in the world.
Royal - It was an interesting project, right? Because before that, I don't think anything else had really quite been as ambitious as what we were doing on Marrowind. Because even Daggerfall before that, which was the previous Elder Scrolls game, was kind of randomized. In Morrowind, every single item in the game is hand placed. If there's a fork on a table, a person put it there, right? Nothing was generated. The art department will make the things. The artist would make a thing. We'd have all these assets, but then we put it together, like Legos. We snapped them all together, the things in the world. You will see the same things over and over again because we use the same assets over and over again. But every single one of those assets was hand placed. Every single curve in a dungeon, even though it maybe the same curve that you see here or there, whatever, was hand placed, and we still try to make a difference. We take that curve that we flip it upside down, or we put a bunch of other stuff in it and we try to make it look different even though it was the same asset. Because every single thing that went in the game had a human's eyes on it and a person physically touching it, we were able to make even things that were the same look different from place to place to place. We put a big effort into doing that.
Chandler - I think it shows, too.
Royal - You know, and then the art guys would then make a pass on everything that we'd done and they tweak it here and there to get that artist's eye, right? Maybe we had done it and it was good, but maybe moving this three inches to the left would make it look better. And the artists would be able to spot that and, you know, we we'd make it serviceable and they'd make it amazing, right? But ultimately, you know, me and my team, we built every single non-story dungeon in the game. All the story stuff was done by the people that were focused on the story but every non-story. I built Pelagiad myself. All of Pelagiad was me. If it's in Pelagiad, I did it.
Chandler - Oh, that's really cool.
Royal - That was one of the first things I did working there. That was, you know, my introduction to the editor and everything was was building Pelagiad. So, here we need this city built. Go build this thing. So that's what I did. Most of my focus after that was dungeons, a little bit of overworld work. Like I said, the entrances to dungeons, but most of my most of my stuff wasn't, you know, physically putting stuff in there to begin with. [It was] getting my team to do things. Working with the editor guys and stuff like that. But, if I built it, it was a lot of dungeons. A lot of dungeons. I got really weird and creative with some of them, you know, trying to make players dungeons filled with lava. Dungeons filled with whatever. There's only so many times you could build a dungeon and go, "holy crap, is it looks like every other dungeon, I need to do something." So you start getting weird and creative and see if instead of using this the horizontal, What happens if I tilt this asset, you know, up on its side and trying to build a dungeon that way. Make you walk on the walls instead of the floors or ceilings of this asset, to see what happens.
Chandler - After a thousand dungeons, you're just like I need something different. Please.
Royal - How do I make this different? Yes, that's the hardest part, right? It's like you've got to make all these dungeons and they all have to be unique and different from each other. And you're like, I have only so many assets to use. Oh, but this is a dungeon, you know, that has this theme behind it. This is dungeon that has that theme applied to it, so I need to, but they're using, you know, similar assets. I need to make them look different.
Chandler - Did you have any assets that were, like off limits for you to touch, besides like a main story points like the Heart and stuff?
Royal - Oh yeah, plenty of stuff that was designed only to be used in the main story. They were designed, they were created this specifically for main story. And they're obvious as you go through the game. Yeah. The only place you're gonna see that is in this dungeon or in this place or this whatever or up the volcano.
Chandler - Did you ever try to like change it, So it didn't look like it and then include it in a different dungeon?
Royal - No.
Chandler - Fair. Well cool, Thank you for this interview. I appreciate it.
Royal - Absolutely!
